1. Defector12/29/2113 min
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    • bill
      Top reader of all time
      2 years ago

      Ok. Wow. Interesting. I read Heather’s piece first, yesterday, and I too thought it was unnecessarily cruel.

      But something about this one is also all wrong. Marriage itself is bullshit The whole thing is bullshit. The author is dead wrong to dismiss “The Institution of Marriage” from this conversation. This WHOLE conversation is about the institution, and the institution sucks.

      Having said that, super-long-term loving partnerships that last until someone dies are incomprehensibly, other-worldly beautiful. Cosmic, meaning-of-life stuff. “Until death do us part,” (or some variation) can be hot/awesome/amazing, especially when whispered into your lover’s ear during an intimate moment, when you really mean it. Hearing someone say it to you- what a thrill! On the flip side, it feels borderline depraved to have that kind of thing written down as a legal commitment on a ledger in some random government building somewhere.

      Love is magic. When two people are attracted to each other so much that they bash their entire lives together and stay that way forever - boom! - it is just so, fucking, incredible. That’s not what marriage is! Marriage isn’t a contract between two people, it’s a contract between two people and the state. Marriage ensures state control (previously it was a religious thing, but religious control and state control have everything in common) over every aspect of your existence. We regularly conflate these two things (loving, long-term relationships & marriages) and the result is a bunch of unhappy people in unhappy arrangements.

      I don’t judge people who get married, but I do get frustrated when people don’t call it what it is. As with so many contracts, money is the key part. We get married because we want the advantages and we want to work less. We want to “lock it in” so we can relax. Again: I don’t necessarily think there’s anything wrong with “settling” with a partner, but we might as well admit it is what it is: the easy way.

      When you get married, you’re saying that (1) you want the financial benefits, and (2) you want Uncle Sam to play a role in keeping you and your lover together for as long as possible.

      I don’t mind living in a world with marriage, but I think I would LOVE to live in a world without it. Either way, there’s plenty of love to go around (plus we magical humans can make love! How fucking cool!) so let’s all just do more of that and stop worrying so much about good marriages and bad marriages. In the grand scheme of things love is a very very real thing and marriage is a very very fake thing.

      Ok now I’m going to hit “submit” before I proofread any of this nonsense 😝

      • Alexa2 years ago

        Preach. Back to normal where were entirely on the same page lol.

        Are all these marriage posts lately bc everyone is already burned out on the 6,000 weddings everyone put off for covid and scheduled at the same friggin time?

        Jokes aside, Heather’s was brutal and cruel yes. And agree, this misses the point.

        It’s a contract! You’re a business partnership with (optional?) sex. Never planned to marry but the financial bennies when we bought a property made eloping worth it. Did it for the tax break. Most other reasons feel too starry eyed and Disney bs, just admit you want a pretty dress, party & a photo shoot and a day that’s all about you lol.

        Call me cynical but I don’t see the romance in paperwork thats entirely optional for a happy partnership

        Side note, my mom totally threw out your #2 at me Bill long ago when I tried to make her explain the point of marriage. Verbatim it was bc it makes it harder to split so you work through stuff you’d otherwise flee. 🤔 tf.

        • kellyalysia
          2 years ago

          Just here to say I enjoyed both of these comments. Never really thought too deeply of the fact that a marriage is an agreement between two people and the state 😳🤯🤯

          • Alexa2 years ago

            Love reading this comment! Lol

    • chrissetiana
      Top reader of all time
      2 years ago

      There are just marriages, made up of people, and the promises you make, freely and entirely of your own volition, and what kind of person you want to be.

      Relationships are simply between the people in it. We can look at someone’s marriage and say THIS IS WHAT IT SHOULD BE but truly, we all live in different circumstances, different personalities in different realities.

    • jamie2 years ago

      Com”on, really…….If you believe marriage is nothing more than a contract then please for the love of God do not get married! But respectfully… Please don’t compartmentalize the rest of us who do not feel that way and believe in the institution for all the good and sometimes not so good times that come with a full commitment to another human…

    • kellyalysia
      2 years ago

      I thought this raised some important points although one nit pick:

      (Maybe this is in part because one of the parties to that marriage is the sort of person who will air out their spouse in the pages of The New York Times, an act that I feel sure no fewer than 999 out of any 1,000 normal spouses would regard as an incomprehensibly monstrous betrayal, but then again maybe not.)

      I would lean toward “maybe not” here. We can’t really judge what constitutes a betrayal in someone else’s marriage or relationship. We have no idea if the husband for whom Heather wrote this piece read the article in advance, whether he blessed or, laughed at it, encouraged it, cried over it, or otherwise. What happens between two people’s marriage IMO is between them (and…apparently The State.) LOL

    • Pegeen
      Top reader this weekScoutScribe
      2 years ago

      Wow! This is shocking. I have to agree with this author. I, too, hate the typical bashing of partners, the constant complaining. First, don’t tell me about it, talk to your partner like a fearless mature person. Secondly, do something about it, like a fearless mature person, if you’re so miserable. And please don’t use the kids as an excuse for not leaving, they hate the relentless toxic energy too. It damages everything and every one. Take responsibility for your life and stop blaming someone else.

      • DellwoodBarker2 years ago

        💯 Great comment 💯

      • SEnkey2 years ago

        YES! It is easier to resent someone than to be honest with them. Being honest forces you to confront what it is you want and to own that desire, which makes us vulnerable. But not being vulnerable, and not being honest, leads to resentment and misery.

        • Karenz2 years ago

          I REALLY enjoyed this writer. He is SO incensed by this NY Times advice giver airing out her husband. He might even pay for the poor husband’s divorce lawyer’s retainer he’s so incensed. I love that 13 years in, he’s still so excited about his wife. Go for it!!’